Does anyone else agree that the Pope has absolutely no right speaking about how much of a violation in vitro fertilization is, especially considering what he said (see below) and his never having had sex?
"The act during which a married couple become father and mother through a mutual act of giving brings them close to the creator, by bringing into the world a new human being. Such an act cannot be replaced by technological intervention."
Perhaps the Catholic church ought not to make any comment on anything sexual for quite a while. Just a thought.
-tb
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Portland
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I actually think people should be financially rewarded if they dont have children.
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They are! Are let's put it this way: people are financially punished if they do. Believe me.
- Lorne
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>>> I actually think people should be financially rewarded if they dont have children. <<<
How about a reward for getting "snipped" (male OR female) before age 25 (maybe if the government/corporate sponsor put $5,000 into a retirement-investment account when you "did the deed," you could retire 40-50 years later with a nice nest egg....), small tax breaks for having ONE kid, no tax breaks for having TWO kids, progressively higher tax breaks for having THREE (or more) kids, to compensate the world for your excess consumption of resources.
Just thinking out loud, here.... -
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"How about a reward for getting "snipped" (male OR female) before age 25..."
Yeah, this is likely to happen some time in the near future.
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to convince a doctor to perform a tubal ligation on anyone that young, especially if you haven't had any children yet? Well, I do! It took me six years of begging, pleading and mandatory psychiatric evaluation, as well as medical complications centered around birth control issues to get it done.
Sure, my experience was quite awhile ago, but I've heard that many people have had similar experiences more recently.
Peter's idea does seem like a good, practical one, though.
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Yeah, but thats a sort of passive reward. I mean, I think if a guy gets his stuff tied at say 18 he should get some dough, and women with one child or no children could collect if they got their tubes tied.
Of course I think this should be a worldwide thing. Try it for 20 years, then revise the program. -
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Actually, there already is a program out there that is similar to that.
I knew a woman who went on welfare when she was pregnant with her first child. She was told that she would get a substantially larger monthly stipend if she got her tubes tied after she gave birth. This wa in Washington state about 10 years ago. I have no idea if it is still in effect. -
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On the other hand, I had to beg, plead and cajole for four years and submit to several sessions of psychiatric evaluation before I was able to convince someone to tie my tubes because I knew by the age of 17 that I never wanted to give birth which was, apparently, considered insanity.
I was asked such delightful questions as "what if you meet the man of your dreams and he refuses to marry you because you cannot have his children?". Honestly, how could someone be the man of my dreams if he doesn't agree that I did the right thing by choosing to parent children who are already here and in need of parents rather than finding it necessary to pass on all the wonderful genetic defects I was blessed with to some poor unsuspecting kid who never asked to be born?
I guess no one could argue with that logic, as they finally allowed me to have the surgery, after aborting a pregnancy conceived with an IUD, which was implanted in the fetus's head. A horrible experience that was totally avoidable.
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no, nothing further from the catholic church about sex for a while... forever would be about right in my book.
story.news.yahoo.com/news
oh, and being gay *still* has nothing to do with pedophilia, but the news flash hasn't reached them from previous centuries yet...
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Thank god for the church to supply us with pedarasts. Now we have faith based initiatives to supply us with more.
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on a serious note, though, jake, the numbers are really disturbingly large, as far as pedophilia in society goes.
the reports I've read estimated that about one in four girls and about one in ten boys are molested (fondled without consent by someone older) at some point before they turn eighteen.
:(
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Well, I think the pope has as much right as anyone else to his opinion on in vitro fertilization, although I hardly see how it's a religious issue. Maybe I would if I wasn't an apatheist.
As far as anyone who's taken a vow of celibacy dictating proper sexual practices, though, I will never understand why people find it logical to follow his advice. But hey, to each his own. That's what free will is all about and I'm a big fan of free will! -
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I'd say the pope has less right to his opinion than 'anyone else' because, unlike 'anyone else'--
a) as a job requirement he knows nothing about sex [at least from a personal perspective, which is the only one worth having on sex, imho]
b) he has an audience of hundreds of millions who are required to take his pronouncements as infallible
c) his track record on reproductive freedom is utterly atrocious, and that's without bringing his predecessors into it... -
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Yeah, its funny how often "conservatives" and the Pope agree on stuff, especially on having a mandate from god.
Kage was asking me why the right and religion line up so often, andI offered the opinion that they are both in the business of making money (limos for the pope, the whole vatican) and thought control.
The man has a right to his opinion, no doubt. And his followers have a right to theirs. Just as I have the right to think their opinions are pretty stupid and narrow minded. -
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touche.
[ps I agree about the alignment between religion & the right you suggest-- this also sounds in tune with what Lakoff has to say on the subject...] -
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i agree with jake.
in essence, it doesn't shock me the pope would say something so ascinine. i'm more surprised GWBush hasn't seconded the motion. -
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okay, so the church is against both abortion and the death penalty.
what's interesting is that the pope makes a proclamationg stating that any politician who is pro-choice is not allowed to take communion, but says no such thing about the death penalty.
hmmmm, all right wingers like the death penalty.
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My first reaction to the question was that the pope didn't have any business talking about in vitro (or anything really, because religion and catholocism, in my opinion, has resulted in so much heinous behavior) but then I appreciated Euphoria's comment that he has as much right as anyone. The fact that he has a large herd of unthinking cows that follow his every word is just a reality we have to deal with. I don't believe in shutting anyone up, regardless of their influence, but I do wish it were possible for the non-religious to have an equally well-known spokesperson.
The pope's just a guy with an opinion (given, a shitty one) who is the head of what I consider to be a useless belief system, but whattya gonna do? I remember referring to the catholic "mythology" and it send one of my friends over the edge because mythology refers to a dead religion, which it is to me, but he saw that as sacrilege, which was fine with me. :)
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Unsu...
I agree that the Pope sounds like a fool for saying what he does, considering the fact, as you brought up, that he is celibate. That said though, he is simply reiterating what his faith instructs, and being neither a catholic nor christian, his words mean nothing to me. Besides, he's just preaching to the choir. Protestants probably don't take him seriously, and there are plenty of Catholics who choose to think for themselves on this issue. As I see it, the more the pope speaks of things that are foreign to him, he'll always come across as a fool, which is a good thing.
