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Prefacing this by saying that I'm the kind of person who doesn't believe in evangelism... To each his own, you can believe how you believe as long as you don't try to push your beliefs on me (though I'm always up for a non-pushy debate).
So anyway, I frequently find myself in situations where I have to figure out how to act without creating lots of tension about not being religious, especially when at work (as a consultant, I have to be particularly polite and accommodating). Just curious about how those of you who are concerned with trying not to make a scene deal with these situations too.
For example: When someone sneezes, there are usually several people within earshot that say "Bless you." so it's not a problem, but when there's just me and one other person I feel really awkward not saying anything if the other person sneezes. And am at a loss when they say "Bless you" to me when I sneeze.
Also when people insist on saying the blessing before a meal (this is more of a family thing, such as at Thanksgiving), or a prayer before a sporting event (like my kid's little league games).
I know some of you will be tempted to say that the world should be more considerate of a-religious people, but in reality, that's just not the way it is... I was just looking for some constructive advice on how to avoid the tension that usually comes with these situations instead of a lot of bemoaning our plight.
So all of you who have figured out creative ways to deal with stuff like this please post!
Thanks!
So anyway, I frequently find myself in situations where I have to figure out how to act without creating lots of tension about not being religious, especially when at work (as a consultant, I have to be particularly polite and accommodating). Just curious about how those of you who are concerned with trying not to make a scene deal with these situations too.
For example: When someone sneezes, there are usually several people within earshot that say "Bless you." so it's not a problem, but when there's just me and one other person I feel really awkward not saying anything if the other person sneezes. And am at a loss when they say "Bless you" to me when I sneeze.
Also when people insist on saying the blessing before a meal (this is more of a family thing, such as at Thanksgiving), or a prayer before a sporting event (like my kid's little league games).
I know some of you will be tempted to say that the world should be more considerate of a-religious people, but in reality, that's just not the way it is... I was just looking for some constructive advice on how to avoid the tension that usually comes with these situations instead of a lot of bemoaning our plight.
So all of you who have figured out creative ways to deal with stuff like this please post!
Thanks!
posted by:
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Phoenix
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Mon, October 13, 2003 - 8:04 PMI usually like to say the social equivalent of bless you in a differnt language like german (i know the spelling sucks) gazuteit, or spanish: salud, both of which wish upon the sneezer better health or continued health. I don't know about the other situations. -
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Mon, October 13, 2003 - 8:38 PMThe one situation that I get unreasonably annoyed by are when people ask me my sign. I decline politely, because I really just don't care to go into it, put people are surprisingly pushy about it and will demand it.
When it comes to that I'll generally "give in" and tell them a fake one, and they'll usually tell that it's "so typical of a taurus to be difficult about it", or something like that. Which gives me great amusement.
-mike -
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Mon, October 13, 2003 - 8:58 PMYou are such a Taurus about it!
j/k
I don't like when people stick in religion where it doesn't belong, but I'll go along when it's not forced on me. I mean, if I start making an issue out of it, it becomes much more of a problem ... so mostly I let it slide and show my tolerance towards others.
I don't quite see the hidden agenda in bless you, I use that a lot, or any non-English variant which means pretty much the same. It's the need to incorporate prayer into non-religious activities that bugs me, but mostly because it gives credence to only a few select religions and does not account for the feelings of the a-religious people in the audience.
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Mon, October 13, 2003 - 11:55 PMI usually go with "SLOW CHILDREN" myself.
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Tue, October 14, 2003 - 6:38 AMUsually, I tell them "I'm an Orion" and let them figure it out.
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Mon, May 10, 2004 - 4:33 AMHeh, on the rare occasions someone asks me my sign, I tell them to tell me. After all, if astrology really works, it should be obvious, right? So far no one has guessed it correctly. And I always just say Gesundheit when someone sneezes. When people say Bless You when I sneeze, I just say thanks if I don't know them, or respond with, "Thanks, driving out those demons" if I do. What a silly thing to say, bless you.
~Sam
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Tue, October 14, 2003 - 3:21 AMI too go with gazuteit. I say thank-you to the bless you's because I figure the intention behind it was good and it's not worth a debate. As far as the blessings and group prayers I just wouldn't do it. What's wrong with a little tension? An if people can't handle your non-religiousness...well who cares. Think of it as a way to weed out friends. In the work situation, I'm not sure. What sort of scenarios are you referring to?
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Tue, October 14, 2003 - 6:44 AMRegarding the sneeze issue, I just throw in a "Bless you" and let it go at that - it's not a plea to a specific diety, it's more of a folk ritual.
For prayer, I just keep my eyes open and look straight ahead, and if I'm asked to give the blessing (as at a family meal, or one of my wife's church functions), I politely say that I don't pray in public.
Generally, neutral statements like that seem to defuse any potential landmines in the topic.
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Wed, October 15, 2003 - 6:10 PMon the sneeze thing, just say 'Good Health!' (this is all that 'Gesundheit!' means, anyway...)
When someone says 'Bless You' you can always just say 'thanks'... all that it means is 'I care enough about social niceties and/or your health to spend two words on it.'
When I give homeless folks money, a disturbing percentage of them (what has *he* done for them lately, anyway?) say 'god bless you, sir' and I usually say back 'the goddess bless you too' or (if they're punk enough) 'satan loves you too'... -
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Mon, November 10, 2003 - 7:57 PMI hear you on this subject, big time. Saying "bless you" after I sneeze, the expelling of air (plus some water droplets, perhaps) is ridiculous. Will you say "bless you" after I fart? Believe me, I've had this conversation with people after they say bless you. Plus, the person saying bless you- is it acceptanle for a common person trying to bless another? I thought that right was reserved "religous people". Saying bless you, or anything else after someone sneezes is just another statement that the masses have conditioned into their minds for social acceptance. And, I refuse to play that game. -
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Fri, January 23, 2004 - 3:16 AMThat's excellent. I will *definitely* start saying bless you to religious people when they fart. :-)
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Wed, April 21, 2004 - 6:34 AMI tend to circumvent the sneeze issue by saying "prosit!" which is what you'd say, in Denmark, which is where I was born. Like "gesundheit," it's just "old" terminology for "your health." When someone says "bless you" when I sneeze, I say "thank you," which "internally" to me means "thank you for your courtesy," rather than "thank you for your blessing."
Living in Bible Belt Gulch, Texas, presents its challenges at mealtimes and in various other situations. I don't know if it's "selling out," but I eventually came to the conclusion that I can get through many situations by the judicious use of the word "YOUR" (i.e. "May YOUR God bless you")-- in a sense, I am OK with wishing someone well on terms they understand, but without actually adopting their "trip" as mine, if that makes sense.
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Sun, January 11, 2004 - 7:38 AMI find that it's generally perfectly acceptable to ignore someone else's sneeze, especially if the sneezer has neglected to say "excuse me" after expelling his or her germs in my general vicinity.
Alternately, I might say "God or whatever diety you worship, bless you". This is sort of an all purpose blessing that can be used at other occassions, too.
As far as the praying goes, I find it's an excellent opportunity for anthropological observation. I like to watch what everyone else is doing during the prayer. If I find someone else doing the same, I think it's appropriate to wink. -
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Group Prayers
Tue, January 20, 2004 - 6:44 AM> I like to watch what everyone else is doing
> during the prayer. If I find someone else doing
> the same, I think it's appropriate to wink.
I used to "fake pray" at those... Now, I just watch everyone.
This sometimes happens at a meal in someone's home. I figure, it's their home, and they can do the prayer if they want to. We're guests. Sure, technically, I could exercise my right to excuse myself -- but what would that gain me?
I discovered that fake praying was a dishonest representation and reflection of myself, and THAT'S what I found most uncomfortable. Now, I just look at everyone: my wife, who often smiles at me; and my host(s), who are often too absorbed in their ritual to notice me noticing them. ;-)
I figure one of these days they might take note of my/our non-participation. In fact, I think some of them already have. It's so great to have understanding and accepting religious friends. -
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Re: Group Prayers
Tue, January 20, 2004 - 7:20 AMIt really IS great to have understanding and accepting friends, as we seem to be the ones in the minority most of the time. I suppose the best ones will accept our customs when dining at our homes and forgo the prayers or do their own, private, quiet prayer sessions when visiting.
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Mon, January 12, 2004 - 9:02 AMWell, and I am probably off the chart with my attitude, but I dont really try to be polite to religious people. Like when they say grace, I either leave or just start eating, it doesent really have anything to do with me.
And when people sneeze, I have no urge to make a comment about it unless they get snot on me. Its just another bodily function. I dont say "bless you" when someone farts, eats, or goes to sleep, I dont know why people say that.
I find as long as you arent pushy about it, as in trying to down their beliefs (which I dont give a shit about what they believe) people find it more interesting than offensive. Sort of a "how can you get by without believing in god", in a way that catches their interest rather than offending them.
Of course you always run into those hardcore ass-cocks who tell you youre a bad person or something. At that point, they have intruded their beliefs into my life, and I just treat them like shit.
Then again, I am sort of an asshole, so you may not want to listen to me. I think the whole religion of political correctness should be done away with to. If someone says something that offends me, I want to be able to call them an asshole and go on with my life. -
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Wed, January 21, 2004 - 12:49 PMYou're an asshole, Jake? Wow, I find this surprising as you seem so empathetic!
I really don't see any reason to be impolite to someone who is so sure in his beliefs as to want to convert the world. If I really cared enough, I might even be jealous that I don't care as much as those people seem to. On the other hand, I once told someone who asked me if I had met "our lord and saviour, Jesus Christ" "Hey, he's the almighty. I'm just a human. If he wants to introduce himself, I think he should know where to find me!". Then I walked away. It's plain, simple logic. -
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Wed, January 21, 2004 - 4:23 PMWas that sarcasm? If so, cool. In addition to not being very nice, I am also pretty dense. -
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Wed, January 21, 2004 - 10:41 PMYeah, I'm afraid I suffer from a rare disease that forces me to be sarcastic more often than not. Alas, it is genetic, so I am unable to procreate.
You're not so dense! -
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Thu, January 22, 2004 - 8:53 AMPeople who cant pro-create make my apathy disappear in a wave of lust. -
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Tue, January 27, 2004 - 7:58 PMThat's a fine quality in a man! ;->
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Fri, January 23, 2004 - 3:30 AMThis happens to me also, I try to respond normally (meaning - politely and with the same social "concern" at least in gesture). Here are some things I have done to give you an idea:
Asked to say grace - "Thank you for all spending Thanksgiving with me! We should all be thankful that there is enough food for all of us at the table." Look up, pass plate, smile.
Someone sneezes. Smile - say oops, offer kleenex.
Right to lifer prattling on and on and on... (Argh!... shut them up)That's a very developed opinion. You must have done a lot of research to formulate that one! Where can I find solid proof of your opinion? When no answer, but the bible comes up as a response. Politely smile as you would to a three old serving you a mud pie on a hamburger bun. Yes, that's nice. Maybe be kind and write ZPG.org down for them top check out. Tell them it is the Zionist Parental Guild or something. :-)
The you don't believe in lord god blah blah blah relative - thank you for sharing your favorite stuff with me. Can I tell you about my friend heroin now? Heh. Just kidding. This will at least change the freaking subject, most of the time.
The friend that wants to help by "converting you" to religion X, Y or Z - Begin addressing their fashion choices in response. This will usually work.
I hope some of this is helpful, anyway. -
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Tue, January 27, 2004 - 12:21 PMgood suggestions, gwench... I like 'em.
of course, this assumes that the person is mature enough to handle their own karma coming back to them on a platter with a sprig of parsley like that...
many theists I've had the displeasure of knowing do not fit that bill...
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Sat, January 31, 2004 - 6:13 PMpeople I know know better than to ask me to say grace....they know Im an agnostic...if Im at my fathers table Ill stand and keep my mouth shut out of respect while prayer is said...as for sneeze time....I say geshundt...as in short for geshundtheit (spelling?) its neutral...to your health!~
If someone gives me a sneezey bless you...I let it slide and politely thank them.
right to lifers...I take em on head on...theres a gorup that religiously pickets an abortion clinic near my firehouse every saturday...I always say RIGHT TO CHOOSE IS A GREAT THING ISNT IT???
(wicked lil bastid I am)
I dont see it as a religious issue...abortion that is...so I dont feel Im stepping on anyones religious freedom in screwing with them.
Oh cripes Gwench I love your Heroin joke....oh boy oh boy thats GOOD!~ -
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Sat, January 31, 2004 - 6:16 PMand YES!!! I now advocate saying BLESS YOU when someone farts ROFLMAO!!!~
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Fri, February 6, 2004 - 2:13 PMI like George Carlin's blessing:
May the forces of evil be confounded on their way to your house.
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Sat, February 7, 2004 - 11:28 PMHow about damning the sneezers for spreading their disease(eg. sneeze....damn you!!) -
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Thu, April 15, 2004 - 12:41 AMHi I'm new to the group and figured I'd chime in.
Bring I'm out to most everyone I know as an atheist, I usually say "Bless you" and then remind people that the blessing is absolutely worthless coming from me -
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Thu, April 15, 2004 - 8:02 PMalso new and saying hi!
My granma asked if i knew where i was going when i died. I said "I'm not totally sure, but i have a pretty good idea."
I like to get historical on folks and tell them about how our primitive ancestors used to think that demons were escaping you or you were expelling them or whatever and so you say bless you.
The best was when i got mistaken for St. Francis! cuz i showed concern for a lost dog in public. -
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Sun, April 18, 2004 - 10:03 AMAs far as dinner-time prayer goes I have to deal with it at every special occasion with my fathers family (as if to say prayer is only necessary on thanksgiving and christmas?) Gotta love those half-assed religious people... but because I respect my father and my family I don't put up a fight - I simply focus on a certain food on the table (which puts my head in a bowing position) and use inner monologue. For example "Dear bread, your going to feel so good in my tummy. I can't wait to eat you up... and though all of these lunatics sitting around me think you came from god - I happen to know you came from the local grocery store."
Basically, I just try to amuse myself through the whole thing and I find it works a lot better than having to explain myself afterward... besides - good christians are supposed to close their eyes during prayer... if they SEE that you're not praying, then what exactly were THEY doing???
~Jennifer. -
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Tue, April 20, 2004 - 11:11 PMThey were judging you. Are you surprised?
Yeah, I fell off the Methodist wagon a decade and a half ago, being raised by bible thumpers who have since turned into Chreasters(*). I was a reactionary anti-religionist for a while but it took too much energy. It was fun getting into arguments about religion though, fueled by a dog-eared Bertrand Russell in my back pocket. These days I don't seem to hang around with those kinds of folks as much. They don't tend to drink cheap whiskey and shoot pool at all hours of the morning.
So now if I sneeze and someone says "bless you" then I say "thanks". Besides, the posts on this thread don't say that people are hearing "God bless you," so you should instead take the phrase as the ultimate humanist expression: "I bless you." Wow!
Home for the holidays is a slightly different story. I go along with the blessing before dinner out of respect for my family. Besides, I still have a little bit of Momma's boy in me. At the same time, it's easy not to fall out of favor when your brother is across the table holding his boyfriend's hand.
I am still waiting for the day that someone says "bless you" when I fart, that is really funny. Maybe I need to take care of that bodily function around some of you people who now have that phrase just waiting for the right occasion.
(*) It's really Christmas and Easter that are the two most important holidays on which to show your Spirit for the Spirit. Thanksgiving is a close third since by comparison it is recent, American, and wasn't created to compete with a Pagan ritual. I imagine that partial practitioners of the Jewish faith who only show up at the big two are called Passanukas or Roshovers or something... -
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Re: Apatheist Social Survival
Wed, April 21, 2004 - 3:40 PM>>I imagine that partial practitioners of the Jewish faith who only show up at the big two are called Passanukas or Roshovers or something...<<
Where I grew up, anyway, I believe such Jews were most often called "normal."
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